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I'd argue there's easily more folks lacking said "scruples" in tech's private sector than the typical on the ground government employee or contractor.

Half of what actually makes money in tech these days involves active spying on consumers or manipulation of base human desires at scale. Not exactly the paragon of morality.


It's stupid, but it mostly works because they also own the sat deployment side of the equation as well.

Dropping the cost to launch (replacement sats etc) by continuing to take greater piece of all total space launches along with large step function capacity refinements with each new rocket generation, means they will continue to push the economics in their favor. $300k/sat might not be worth it, but unless there's a number of back to back unmitigated disasters with their new rockets (totally possible given the cost of getting it wrong) launch costs will continue to drop as they iterate. Even in the worst case where starship never works, they can still salvage and continually refine their current proven designs.

That said, I do not trust their IPO valuations at all. I have enormous respect for what SpaceX has accomplished in such a short time span. When the US government deprioritized further space R&D for all launch vehicles and relied entirely on Russian launch vehicles, I honestly thought it was the end of an era of innovation in space in my (current) country. I'm glad I was wrong to some extent, even if it means an over reliance on the private sector to make further progress.

You may point out that private space ventures sadly have similar problems to ceding to foreign nations, and you wouldn't be wrong. The only silver lining for me is getting to see continued progress in my lifetime. It doesn't take all the sting out of government funding drying up for space launch vehicles, especially when our other budgets like defense are so insane, but I'll take it at face value as a victory for humanity to continually improve space capabilities at scale in any form.


I def also want to see continue progress and investing in space is only a problem in capitalism, which i'm not a big fan of anyway.

But it would be so much better if the person behind this would have more character.


To be absolutely clear, as I make no allusions: we operate in a brutal, broken system from the current financial systems under capitalism in its current form. I'd likewise argue that a billionaire "with character" vs a billionaire with none is still highly problematic. The very existence of billionaires is the root of enough social ills that they should not exist as a class of people at all. Many in that class would even claim to be "doing what's best" in all honesty, when nothing could be further from the truth. Sadly that doesn't mean the ruling class simply ceases to exist because of our collective desires. Nothing short of massive societal change through collective action, something humans have been proven to be really, really bad at time and again, would make any other system possible. I digress..

That said, SpaceX engineers managing to perform impressive feats in manned and unmanned space travel still stands as something to be lauded in my book, even if their leadership deserves none of it. These feats are made _more impressive_ given the poor, child-like behavior found in their particular brand of leadership rather than less.

The employees of SpaceX have made their views about leadership very well known several times now, often with real consequences to themselves and their families. We live in unfortunate times. I'll take my slivers of hope for humanities continued advancement in space travel where I can however, even as it seems the fabric of society further unravels.


I like your term "honest capitalism". I'm putting that in my back pocket for later.

Capitalism breeds monopolies by rewarding first movers with economic advantages via feedback loop. This is how the system is designed to work, always has been, always will be.


But they made up a bunch of forecasts with rosy future prospects! Think of how profitable they'll be if literally the world model matched their simple growth equations!

From my perspective, it's all just collective gambling when it comes down to it for tech IPOs these days. The market trends are just as much a popularity game as they are anything else.


It's big in the recreational boating community, as those folks generally have the disposable income to support a SpaceX ISP subscription.

Worldwide there's roughly 30 million recreational boats, whereas for commercial aircraft carrying people (not cargo) is more like 30k, so different orders if magnitude. It's highly likely boating would be a more profitable industry to satisfy demand for than airlines in the long term. That is unless they're charging exorbitantly more for airline contracts than personal boat use, which is totally possible.


There's enough vast terrestrial areas that have had no other options, so those areas may have pent up demand at least in the short term. However, I think they'll need to figure out how to further lower costs to target those poorer underserved communities that tend to come up in these discussions. That is, unless some sort of subsidy is put in place by governments that know that internet connected communities boost economic values, etc. Some such programs likely already exist in some form in the US, but are largely regional so may take some effort to integrate into those systems.

AFAICT, popular tech companies owned by cult of personalities tend to get overinflated evaluations. I agree that the promise of returns tends to be rosier than reality, but at least SpaceX makes a tangible product and isn't the average AI shilling company with no hope of returns. Here at least they have first mover advantage along with lower scaling costs than their competitors thanks to the rocketry side of the biz. I have enormous respect for what SpaceX has accomplished (even if I'm not a fan of the company's owner, etc.)


Cult of personality will take you pretty far apparently. So far in Elon's case he could drop his mask of technical genius and become an inordinatly wealthy memelord/shitposter and still have a following.

Limited by the amount of satellite coverage? Or on the ground limitations from ever greater division of bandwidth? I guess those two are directly correlated, but they could in theory add microwave relays into the mix to help offset higher population dense areas from lower density ones with less used bandwidth.

I think it's mainly a limitation of the beam steering: terminals that are close together need to be seperated in bandwidth so that they don't intefere with each other, and there's only so much bandwidth available. Tighter beam steering could help but that is something that tends to bump up against physical limitations.

(and it's an area where it would need orders of magnitude improvements to address the density of cities, it's not really close at the moment)


Really interesting insight, thanks!

In the past I've worked on consensus based protocols like the ones used in modern cellular systems; basically edge devices register with a controller system that then coordinates time slots for distribution/use of bandwidth for the limited spectrum. Adds a lot of complexity and requires highly accurate time synchronization mechanisms to have any hope of working, but they certainly could leverage something like that to further increase support at higher densities. That is, if they're not doing that already.


That's another way to divide up the total amount of available bandwidth (common on any shared medium and they are almost certainly already doing this), but it doesn't increase the amount of available bandwidth in a given area.

You mentioned beam contention as the key problem, which consensus networks solve at the cost of latency at the high end. As for bandwidth, in theory, you get the full network speed when it's "your turn", so that looks somewhat "bursty" when cycle lengths are too high from high demand. Naturally it evens out at human perception timescales appearing as lower bandwidth though. And obviously there's a saturation point where it no longer makes sense to continue slicing the pie and more complex mitigation strategies like exp back off, priority queuing, varying cycle lengths, etc need to be added into the mix.

To decrease that latency in high density areas like cities they'd need to reach for something like terrestrial microwave relays to add more connection points from adjacent (in horizon) "freer skies"


They do make internet convenient and somewhat reliable for places that had no other options (on my boat, etc.) But I doubt they can displace wired or microwave relays, and why would they? On-earth systems are much cheaper to maintain even if the cost to LEO reduces by another order of magnitude.

At some point we'll reach saturation of what we're comfortable putting into LEO, or at least greater pushback from governments leading to regulations in hopes of avoiding that. There's a lot of space junk out there already and they're still pumping out those isp satellites en mass.

Luckily these specific spacex LEO sats decay pretty rapidly (unless they've made them more advanced recently, I haven't followed closely as of late.) So I guess they'll keep themselves busy at least refreshing the fleet.


Yes humanity has a great track record of taking care of the commons.

LEO is like a bad haircut. Just wait a while and the disaster solves itself.

They decay out of orbit by design

Sure over potentially 25 years+.

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