I used to collect and restore pocket watch movements. This looks like a really lovely guide and is the kind of thing that's quite hard to find. Horology isn't a "very online" kind of pursuit.
One of the challenges starting out is getting watches that were made to be repaired, but aren't too expensive. It looks like esslinger sells the movement covered here for $45, which is a great deal[1]. I used to buy old soviet watches like Molnija[2], which were unauthorized copies of high quality western movements.
Watches were very much the cell phones of their day! If you enjoy the evolution of mobile computing you might find them compelling.
Molnija wasn't a ripoff, Soviets purchased the design and the initial tooling from Cortebert.
This particular Cortebert's calibre is indeed somewhat famous for being used by Rolex in 1940's (as cal. 618).
It's a fine movement in itself and Molnijas are not bad at all, both in their original 15 jewel variant (from 1947 to early 1960's) or as a later 18 jewel one. I would just avoid the specimens from 1990's or later.
I especially like the 18 jewel Molnijas from early 1960's that were still decorated with Geneva stripes and had a microadjuster. Molnijas became more utilitarian later on.
Thank you for the correction! I uncritically took my story from a webpage on soviet watch history. I also didn't realize that the design was a shared ancestor of both rolex and molnija - I thought molnija had copied rolex. Such are the pitfalls of being an amateur.
I've found that most soviet watch brands decay in quality as you get into the 90s. If they don't, they start to match the price points of their western counterparts.
Do you need several-standard-deviation better than average fine motor control to mess with this stuff? I can't imagine successfully handling any of the pieces of the movement, so my "repair" skills would be limited to swapping out the whole thing or using some kind of robotic apparatus to gear down my movements.
I had the same concern and that's part of why I got into pocket watches instead of wrist watches! That said, my experience is that people who repair watches are no more superhuman than you or I and that it's mostly experience.
>my "repair" skills would be limited to swapping out the whole thing or using some kind of robotic apparatus to gear down my movements.
Mine too! I never talked to anyone who did repair as a job, but my impression is that most repair is swapping out broken parts for working ones from other cannibalized movements. In theory you could fab new parts, of course, but that would be beyond my skills and experience. Think of it like how people build computers: they replace components and make sure it all works together.
But back in the day people used to make all the parts by hand, right? And they still have to make parts when repairing old pocket watches, etc... how do they do it?
Naw - precise timekeeping evolved with the ability to reliably manufacture precision components. That's one of the ways in which it parallels cell phones! There's this whole technology race where material science and timekeeping mechanism development mutually urge each other on.
I think for larger clocks (like the ones repaired by John in S-Town[1]), hand-created components were far more common. They were developed as objects that would be maintained and watched by a large community and less precision was manageable.
No more than say, building a model airplane or model car. The movements for these watches especially are relatively cheap - you can find plenty of 7S26s on ebay for right around $20-25 - so the cost of replacing one that you might mess up is low. i recently rebuilt a similar movement with no prior experience and am actually wearing the watch right now. The best tool to have is a loupe, a good set of tweezers, and patience!
This is the kind of horology I enjoy. Lately it's been hard to find a community where it doesn't just mean "I buy expensive watches and post pictures of them online."
This looks like a great site. I'd say Seiko's are great movements to learn on in that their quality is high enough to last and price point is very reasonable. Even without working on the movement itself, swapping movements into different watch cases is a great exercise for someone new to watch-making. I was modding Seiko's for a few years and usually could at least make a few dollars on Ebay selling them.
The ETA 6497 is maybe one of the best movements for beginners as it is larger all around and still very inexpensive.
This was almost exactly the opinion given to me by a watchmaker about 10-11 years ago. He said that if you wanted one of the best, daily-wearable mechanical watches that wasn't going to be so expensive that you'd be afraid to wear it everywhere, pick up a Seiko 5.
Which I did. I've worn it every day for the last 9 years, and I love it.
I wore mine for three years before I broke it during maintenance. The flywheel came loose so I retightened the screw. A few months later it came loose again and I over tightened it, which popped out a peg that held the balance spring. I ruined the balance spring while trying to remount the peg.
I bought another one of course. No maintenance yet. :p
Sorry, but that's just nonsense. Mechanical time pieces that could even remotely be compared to a quartz in terms of precision and accuracy are few and far between and Seiko's 7s26 is certainly NOT among them by any means imaginable...
The truth is, 7s26 is a proper workhorse, but not particularly precise even when compared to others from the same category.
The 7s26 comes unregulated from the factory and its officail accuracy spec is an abysmal range of -35 to +45 seconds per day.
In reality, with 7s26 one can expect a daily deviation in the range of 20s between the 6 positions and the actual accuracy depends quite a bit on your luck, but is often resonably OK.
They are easily regulated, though... Basic regulation, I mean, nothing fancy. That still won't make the mechanism precise, but it can make it reasonably accurate if needed be, in the sub 10s area. Naturally, it will still fluctuate a bit, day to day, unlike a more precise mechanism would...
Compare that to a Grand Seiko that achieves -3s to +5s daily even under demanding conditions. These, especially if regulated a bit more, can achieve sub 1s daily even during longer periods of time... Now that's precise.
BTW, many people confuse the actual precision of a mechanism with the daily accuracy. Don't. Those are two very different things. :)
Just to mention, older Seiko 5 with 63xx calibres were, in practice, a bit better then the ones with 7s26, IMHO, especially those sporting a 6319 with 21 jewels. The 6309 were nice too but had a weak spot in their design.
The modern variants of 7s26, the 4r36 and 6r15 (don't let the designations fool you, it's the same calibre family) are a bit better but still nothing special. The factory spec for a 4r36 is still the abysmal -35s to +45s daily, the 6r15 is a bit better but still inadequate, IMHO.
Don't get me wrong, I quite like Seikos and also own a few :)
> Don't get me wrong, I quite like Seikos and also own a few :)
As if we couldn't tell :-)
In some ways the 7s26 and 4r36 are kind of nice, in that you can often find a position to rest your watch at night so that the daily gain is averages out to zero. But some people with a GS get +9s and can't do anything about it. (They actually promise -1 to +10 when cased, for 9S65. Kind of disappointing.)
How very true, having such a fine GS and observe it do +9s or +10s per day would be disappointing.
This is completely individual of course, but I'd really want such a watch to be regulated to be somewhere in between 0 and +4s, taking owners wearing habits into account...
A bit silly how a few seconds can make a difference in one's perception of such an object! Even knowing that the precision is there, still...
Luckily I can properly regulate my watches but not everybody can easily do so these days. In view of this, pushing the 9s65 spec to +10s when cased really seems a bit excessive...
Really cool site and instructions for an automatic watch. I recently switched to a manual watch, and I think personally I prefer it more. Winding my watch is now part of my every day routine and I look forward to it.
I also calculated that each "click" on the wind represents 15 minutes, so when I wind it up and hear the clicks, I know that's time I'll spend today that I won't get back, so spend it well!
I would totally envy you if you tell me you have the one with the green dial. Do you have the proper "Red Alpinist" (with the actual "Alpinist" word printed on the dial) or the "SPORTS 200" version?
I have the other two (proper "Red Alpinists"): cream and black. And I'm just missing the green one.
Yeah, but that won't be the same Alpinist. Especially given the Prospex logo, which is a bit weird because my impression of the Prospex line is that it is mostly a diver's line, whereas the Alpinist is supposed to be a climber's/mountaineer's watch.
After 4S15 was discontinued, Alpinists based on 6R15 have been produced for many years, but they are nowhere as sought after as the 4S15 version.
It's not really a new movement, just an improved version of the same old...
...but for a much higher price.
I really don't appreciate how Seiko is upselling certain segments of their products. I feel the customers are being milked without getting the once excellent value in return anymore.
One of the challenges starting out is getting watches that were made to be repaired, but aren't too expensive. It looks like esslinger sells the movement covered here for $45, which is a great deal[1]. I used to buy old soviet watches like Molnija[2], which were unauthorized copies of high quality western movements.
Watches were very much the cell phones of their day! If you enjoy the evolution of mobile computing you might find them compelling.
[1] https://www.esslinger.com/genuine-seiko-3-hand-automatic-wat... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molnija