The issue I see is that sometimes certain fabrication methods are neccessarry. Phones are glued shut, making disassembly difficult, but that glue also has a point, screws take up a lot of space and glue allows a water tight bond between components.
Same with non user replacable batteries.
It can be very difficult to distinguish between effective design decision and mallicious manufacturing.
Though I agree with the general argument, I disagree with the necessity of glued components. When protective phone cases are ubiquitous (80-90% of all phones from a quick search), it shows that the trend for thinner and thinner phones isn't being driven by a desire for thinner phones. Yet so many of the trade-offs in phone design, increasing fragility and decreasing repairability, are being imposed by the relentless pursuit of a thinner phone.
Just as it is difficult to distinguish between effective design decisions and malicious manufacturing, I'd say that it is also difficult to distinguish between effective design goals and malicious smokescreens that hide malicious manufacturing.
> When protective phone cases are ubiquitous (80-90% of all phones from a quick search), it shows that the trend for thinner and thinner phones isn't being driven by a desire for thinner phones.
I’m not sure that your conclusion follows from the observation. Sample size of one but I personally am quite happy for phones to be thinner precisely because I put a protective case on mine. A new iPhone with a case can be less than or as thick as the original iPhone was without a case.
Good point, there was a missing step in my reasoning. I am assuming that the durability gained by integrated changes to a design have fewer tradeoffs in thickness, as compared to an external case.
Gluing a phone shut doesn't have to be detrimental to repairability as long as the glue is heat-softening.
So far I've opened all my smartphones just by heating them first. However, when they start using thermoset (rather than thermoplastic) glues I'll flip.
I hope not, but even then a thin plastic frame isn't the worst. One could 3d print it for example. The worst I can think of is using a thermoset glue (or a thermally stable epoxy) on metal only parts. Then no one could fix it without replacing the chassis.
However, the trend these days seems to be glass backs and this necessitates rubber/silicone like glues to make the glass less likely to break when metal deforms on impact. I don't think there are any glues that are rubber like flexible and they resist heat. So at least until there are glass backs we're fine :-)
I don’t think that distinction necessarily needs to be made if the third-party repair industry is allowed to thrive. If getting your phone repaired and given new life was a common thing everyone did, Pennie’s that couldn’t be repaired or were expensive to repair might not sell as well.
As it stands glueing the phone shut isn’t an issue for most consumers because they expect to throw away and buy a new phone every year or two.
Right, which is exactly the point I'm making. If third-party repair was common, consumers could decide if the advantages of having a phone glued together outweigh the advantages of a more repairable phone.
My whole point was that the solution is not to force phones to be more repairable, but to stop manufacturers from strangling the repair industry and give consumers actual choice.
Most phones are not glued shut, including iPhones starting all the way back to 4/5. iPhone batteries are also not glued in. Source: We run independent repair shops.
OK. We literally repair these for a living. You and I may have differing definitions of “glue”, but the water seal gasket is not what I would call glue. It is a sticky gasket that is peelable and removable. It can be replaced, and in fact we replace it when we do repairs. Think of it like double-sided tape.
If you watch videos of people doing iPhone screen replacements, you can watch them peel it off easily and then replace it when they put the new screen on.
I am a bit surprised that someone would want to argue with a person who runs shops that do this for a living, but maybe this explanation will help other folks understand.
Also, I can’t reply to your other comment, but the iPhone 14 that is sold in the United States does not have a SIM tray.
>It is a sticky gasket that is peelable and removable.
It is a gasket with a sticky substance to keep the back from falling off. This sticky substance is, as far as I am aware called "glue".
I do not know what your point is. If you want to say "phone backs are secured by sticky gaskets" instead of "phone backs are glued down", be my guest. Who cares?
Still, it is done for a particular purpose and shouldn't be legislated away.
>If you watch videos of people doing iPhone screen replacements, you can watch them peel it off easily and then replace it when they put the new screen on.
I suppose the point might be that if the speculation is that the phone is being “glued shut” to inhibit repairs, there are other glues and epoxies that would be far more effective at the task than the ones chosen for the waterproofing seal or battery mounting.
Their point was that you were saying a thing confidently that was not true. I'm trying to figure out what your point is, other than pretending like you have inside information about the necessity of glue that isn't there.
What was I wrong about? What do you think the sticky substance on the gaskets is? Couldn't possibly be glue.
My point is the phones are glued for a good engineering reason.
That definitely helps my understanding, and thank you for it. Based on my previous understanding, that the adhesive needs to be heated to release. Is this true of the newer models with the gasket, or only the older "glued" models?
When you say "we do replace it when we do repairs", do you mean that you place the original gasket back into location, or that the original gasket is replaced with a new gasket?
It definitely helps to heat the phone for a bit to loosen up the gasket. We have a blue heat mat that helps with this, as do most repair shops.
I had to go back and look since my knowledge dates back to around the iPhone 4/4S (we've been running our shops since 2014.) Only the original iPhone was glued together. The gaskets started with the iPhone 6s, to my memory. The original gasket is peelable, so it typically gets destroyed when you open the phone, but they are cheap and pretty easy to replace. If you buy a DIY replacement iPhone screen, it will usually come with it.
>I am a bit surprised that someone would want to argue with a person who runs shops that do this for a living, but maybe this explanation will help other folks understand.
By how many $ will this affect your 'living'?
# serious question.
You mean the passing of Right to Repair? Completely unknown at this point. We're hoping it will be helpful to raise awareness of independent repair and offer more choice to people who want to get their devices repaired.
How is this relevant? Which phone does not have a "user removable SIM tray". Usually they are sealed as well.
And in any case, how does this matter for the back of the phone?
I haven't opened one myself since the 5S but that sticky substance that holds down the battery, while it might not be "glue" in a strict technical sense, adheres the battery to the case rather firmly. It's totally reasonable for someone to say that's "glue". This is especially true if they end up deforming the battery when removing it.
I think it all boils down to reparability. Just doing the basics (disassembly, and part replacement) with these assemblies take A LOT more practice and skill than the vast majority of people are generally prepared for.
Does it have to be this way? I think that's the key question. There's ultimately trade-offs between having something that's easy to work on vs something sleek and thin vs something that's affordable vs something that's performant. As consumers we are at the mercy of "genius designers" to decide those trade-off's for us. Personally, I don't mind having my phone be a nightmare to repair as long as it does the job I need it do and I can pay somebody to fix it if that's prudent. With other things, like appliances (that don't have borderline microscopic parts), I really want something that has a service manual.
iPhone batteries have underneath them strips of adhesive that can be peeled up using a screwdriver rolling in a motion like you would twirl spaghetti on a fork. This isn't glue.
Certain older MacBook batteries were glued down. But now, even on newer MacBooks, the batteries are held in by similar removable adhesive strips. All of this is a step in the right direction.
Believe me, Apple has done a lot of things to make third-party and independent repair more difficult. I'm not super thrilled with them. But saying Apple is gluing batteries or screens down when they're not is where I feel it's important to step in as a repair shop owner and explain what is actually going on.
As a consumer, that adhesive strip is just foam tape with glue on both sides. You're correct that it's easier to disassemble then glue alone. But, it's still glued by most people's definition of the word.
The issue comes in, when you lose all warranty on parts if someone opens up the phone. Which is unreasonable.... Imagine if your car warranty was contingent on you only using approved mugs inside the vehicle.
There are videos of new iPhones treating a replacement screen as not a genuine part... even though it was take off another iPhone right next to it.
It can be very difficult to distinguish between effective design decision and mallicious manufacturing.