I love Tintin! People in the US grew up with Marvel comic books. We grew up with Tintin, as did our parents before us. Can't wait to see what people do with it.
True, but unlike Tintin, Astérix is still being published, and (unlike, say, Spirou) the new editions by the writers and artist who succeeded Goscinny and Uderzo are actually good as well.
As someone who grew up on a small island with 700 people on it, with one tiny library that I could borrow unlimited amount of comic books from (a lot of Tintin and Asterix :) ), that does sound strange.
As well as Tintin, I also got Spirou[1], and my personal favorite, Gaston[2]. Gaston was more short format, but the slapstick humor and absurd scenarios really resonated with me as a kid.
They were translated to Norwegian and came in bound books. Still have them.
Wow, haven't seen those images in a long time. I can't recall where I read this Gaston comic—translated of course—but I have never laughed so much at comic strips in my life. I still remember that cigarette machine he built as well as alcoholmeter.
Should have been made into cartoon series, but seeing how old it is I wonder if it was before its time. It really had an originality unlike anything I've read before or since.
Amazingly it wasn't translated into English until 2017, which is probably why it's lesser known outside of Europe. I assume this is because the translation rights/contracts with Mr. De Mesmaeker took a long time to get signed.
Oh man I remember Gaston, I found some books in the library as a kid and loved them. I distinctly remember his car, he once modified it to run on wood-gas.
More than a reference. Ibañez, the creator of Mortadelo stole a lot from the creator of Gaston. He even created a character, Sacarino that was an obvious plagiarism (a mix of Gaston and Spirou). When pressed by deadlines the young Ibañez recycled entire vignettes and old histories redrawn with his own characters. He disliked the character but it grow so popular that couldn't stop drawing it. Finally Ibañez removed the character and apologized to the master Franquin for that.
Sacarino didn't end until the 80's. The point is Bruguera was highly exploitative with crazy deadlines and tons of short stories published, even from ghost writers. Ibañez was milked down. If he had a slower pace, yes, it could still create long story albums similar to the Franco-Belgian trend, but with its own detailed style. Such as the ones from El Sulfato Atómico and Valor y Al Toro, where you can see the obvious inspration from Gaston/Spirou, but you can also spot his own style on depicting the environment. Don't blame Ibañez, but the publisher.
Great news. The copyright owners of Tintin are very litigious [0].
I have some "Tintin in Vietnam" prints at home that are commonly sold in SE Asia [1]. Those street vendors will be happy to know that they're in the clear now.
American here; our kids pore over their Tintin books. I suspect we’re part of a trend; unsure how large. I vaguely knew about Tintin growing up but never had the opportunity to read more than a few pages, and no friend ever brought them up.
They (and the Asterix books) were pretty common in language learning classes in the US. Obviously, primarily French as that was the original language, but because both series have been translated into nearly every European language (and beyond) they are also useful for others -- we read translated Tintin and Asterix in my German classes as well.
What's interesting is that some of the Asterix were even translated in local dialects. It's the only comic I've ever read in Plattdeutsch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_German). We also read it in a Latin class because some of the albums were translated in Latin (nice break between trying to translate texts from Cicero)
Typo, just spotted. Should read "In the US they apparently have a 95 year maximum term"
In the EU they brought books that had expired copyright (e.g. in the Uk which used to be life +50) back into copyright. This also did not happen in the US when it extended copyright to life + 70).
Ooh! I would super recommend reading into the Tintin author's friendship with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Chongren. It also touches upon and confirms/applies to what the French individuals say about Hergé, but up until his writing of The Blue Lotus, I'd argue.
The section on Zhang Chongren's wikipedia was cool
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# Influence on Hergé
Hergé's early albums of The Adventures of Tintin were highly dependent on stereotypes for comedic effect. These included evil Russian Bolsheviks, lazy and ignorant Africans, and an America of gangsters, cowboys and Indians.
At the close of the newspaper run of Cigars of the Pharaoh, Hergé had mentioned that Tintin's next adventure (The Blue Lotus) would bring him to China. Father Gosset, the chaplain to the Chinese students at the University of Leuven, wrote to Hergé urging him to be sensitive about what he wrote about China. Hergé agreed, and in the spring of 1934 Gosset introduced him to Zhang Chongren. The two young artists quickly became close friends, and Zhang introduced Hergé to Chinese history and culture, and the techniques of Chinese art. Of similar age, they also shared many interests and beliefs. Hergé even promised to give authorship credits to Zhang in the book, but Zhang declined the offer. As a result of this experience, Hergé would strive, in The Blue Lotus and subsequent Tintin adventures, to be meticulously accurate in depicting the places Tintin visited.
As a token of appreciation, Hergé added the character "Chang Chong-Chen" (Tchang in original French-language version) to The Blue Lotus.[1]
As another result of his friendship with Zhang, Hergé became increasingly aware of the problems of colonialism, in particular the Empire of Japan's advances into China, and the corrupt, exploitative International Settlement of Shanghai. The Blue Lotus carries a bold anti-imperialist message, contrary to the prevailing view in Europe, which was sympathetic to Japan and the colonial enterprise[citation needed]. As a result, it drew sharp criticism from various parties, including a protest by Japanese diplomats to the Belgian Foreign Ministry.[citation needed]
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I bought a copy of The Blue Lotus after learning about how the publication of that adventure was a turning point in Hergé's understanding and open-mindedness about other (specifically China, in this case) cultures.
Hergé's depiction of the Chinese was still quite stereotypical, although more benign than his previous treatment of non-Europeans. His depiction of the Japanese wasn't so nuanced (although fairly typical for the times).
He may have started to broaden his understanding of "foreigners", but it still took a while.
TBH, it's not really just a problem with Hergé. European comics throughout the century are full of stereotypes, typically used for comedic effect, which can look bad from a modern perspective. Asterix, by Goscinny and Uderzo, is entirely built on stereotypes. So is Alan Ford, by Secchi and Raviola.
In reality, most authors were not particularly racist; they just leveraged stereotypes to get cheap laughs, which was socially accepted back then.
Back in the day any European would laugh on itself as a tradition. Spaniards did the same with the Bruguera School (Mortadelo y Filemón, Zipi y Zape...) making fun on both the state/power/society and the outdated traditional family values. The Zapatilla brothers (Zipi and Zape) were subversive long ago before Bart Simpson and made a good laugh on the 60's Spain. MyF were basically "Get Smart" and the Superagent 86 10 years ago in the 70's, showing up a backwards Spain compared to France and Germany and making fun on the shitty infra we had on everything while we tried to fight crime. Luckly, times changed a lot in late 70's/80's.
Most of us will just ignore these parts (nobody's perfect, expecting that from a past author is a high bar, and would have considerably reduced the amount of entertainment available), but I also see an option for us to have alternative versions where those bits are either reworked or removed.
The original would still be there, and there would be a "modernized" version that's easier to digest for the newer generations.
Yeah I have fond memories of reading Tintin in my school library, but I recently downloaded and re-read one of the comics and while, by title, it was likely one of the less risky ones, it was still not up to the standard I'd expect of modern literature in this regard. To call it racist might be too divisive, but it certainly relied on stereotypes of race, gender, occupation, even neuro-divergency, too much for my taste.
It was pretty low quality compared to later Tintin books, and a lot more racist. No surprise though considering the era, and that this was during the midst of the Belgian occupation of the Congo.
Tintin is not a French comic, is from Belgium. And the first two comics are controversial, but also a product of that age. Blue Lotus also depicts a terrible image of Japanese.
Asterix is more consistent, complex and rewarding for adults. A part of Asterix has dated also because the endless cameos of real people popular in that years don't mean so much for new generations.
Other European comic in the big leagues is the Spanish Mortadelo and Filemon. If Tintin is adventure and Asterix is clever wordplay, Mortadelo embraces directly sadistic fun in its wild own way. If you don't know them still, see the film "Mortadelo and Filemon: Mission implausible" for a good glimpse of that world. You'll thank me later.
Mortadelo y Filemón were a parody on Sherlock Holmes and Watson first, but being a polar opposite duo a la Don Quixote and Sancho Panza. Later, at the mid-late 70's they shifted to a James Bond like parody, being secret agents instead of private detectives.
And, OFC, as Don Quixote, they made fun of the Spanish society itself leaving no one without a critique. Politicians, bosses, the average Spaniard mentality of being half a cheapskate lifehacker and half a rascal, the Church, the shitty state infrastructures for its time, and so on.
The Brits have a similar setting with the Rowan Atkinson movies depicting incompetent spies with a Mr Bean like character.
Very good definition. Definitely Tom-and-Jerry-esque mixed with blue collar scroundrel overtones.
I would expect to have more new Tintin comics as result, but probably will be at most a good falsification (Don't made me make talk about the new "Lord of the rings" film).
Yes, the earlier Tintin comics, (like Tintin in Congo, which I don't think is published any more), are quite blatant in its colonial stereotypes. But to his credit Herge did change his world views (and that of Tintin), to become more "multicultural", when he became friends with a chinese artist and sculptor. (See: Tintin, Hergé and Chang – A Friendship That Changed the World - https://thewire.in/books/tintin-herge-and-chang-a-friendship... and the HN discussion on this - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36468028 ).
> When Hergé published this comic book, he was only 23 years old and wrote it as part of government-led initiative to encourage Belgians to take up commissions in Congo ... Later on his life, Hergé would say: "For the Congo as with Tintin in the Land of the Soviets, the fact was that I was fed on the prejudices of the bourgeois society in which I moved ... It was 1930. I only knew things about these countries that people said at the time: 'Africans were great big children ... Thank goodness for them that we were there!' Etc. And I portrayed these Africans according to such criteria, in the purely paternalistic spirit which existed then in Belgium".
I have not read Tintin in Congo but apparently Tintin is (or was) quite popular in the Democratic Republic of the Congo according to a friend of mine who grew up in the DRC. Wikipedia also mentions it was popular in Francophone Africa, backing up what my he told me.
My friend is a big fan of Tintin and has a lot of really nice hand carved large wooden figurines of the characters and vehicles from the series.
I would normally think these figurines would be made for tourists but I don't think there is much of a tourist trade in the DRC. These figurines would sell for a lot of money in the USA or Europe.
Isn't it? Not sure about today but I bought a copy maybe 10 years ago after never having seen it for sale in living memory before that. It did come with some wrapping around the front that said it was of its time though.
I got a new French copy more recently than that as well (can't remember when exactly but it may have been in the last two years).
I just checked my French and English copies - the black and white edition was first translated to English in 1991 and the coloured edition was first translated to English in 2005.
The coloured editions seem to be the same in both languages except for the rhino encounter (plus the English edition having a content warning before page 1). I believe the changed rhino encounter was initially done for the Dutch translation many years ago.
Are you saying it is good that older art pandered to its era’s sensibilities, but it is bad that current art panders to ours? It seems to follow that the bad pandering today becomes good pandering after some amount of time?
It is a classic challenge with art: whether to view it in the context of its time or as self contained and removed from its context. Dunno if either view is better; they serve different purposes.
But I do think it’s notable that art from the same era, created by people with similar backgrounds, can vary widely in how much it parrots what we consider to be “warts” from the era.
Compare Jan Eyre and North and South: authors with similar social contexts, yet one perpetuates racist/colonial stereotypes and doesn’t question Victorian ideas about class, and one is much more modern in its view of gender and class.
I’m not sure I would say that part of what makes Jan Eyre good is its unquestioning colonialism. It’s a great book, no doubt, but its prejudices are a weakness, not a strength.
>Are you saying it is good that older art pandered to its era’s sensibilities, but it is bad that current art panders to ours?
Art can be good whether it panders to sensibilities or not. There are many more factors involved than that. For art involving social critique it's best to not pander, but not all art is like that.
But once it's created, it should be left to reflect its era, its creator, and the actual semtiments he had and wanted to express. Not retrofitted with later moral posturings.
>Compare Jan Eyre and North and South: authors with similar social contexts, yet one perpetuates racist/colonial stereotypes and doesn’t question Victorian ideas about class, and one is much more modern in its view of gender and class.
They are not redducible to one another though, as they cover different aspects of life, from different angles and viewpoints.
We should preserve Bronte's viewpoint though, not erase it or reject it, or keep the plot and change it's views and morals to our taste.
I'm not advocating book burning or anything. I'm just saying that we can look at Bronte and say "she had some good ideas about women's place in the word, but was totally blind to the racist / colonialist themes she adopted". It doesn't make her bad, but it does make her less of a forward thinking person than Gaskell.
> We should preserve Bronte's viewpoint though, not erase it or reject it, or keep the plot and change it's views and morals to our taste.
Eh, this is more complicated to me. If you were producing a modern play/movie of Jane Eyre, would you keep the psychotic creole woman locked in the attic, unchanged?
>Eh, this is more complicated to me. If you were producing a modern play/movie of Jane Eyre, would you keep the psychotic creole woman locked in the attic, unchanged?
Sure. I'd want to retain art as an ark of its time. The idea is to present the work of the writer, not to use their mere basic plot as a starting point.
Should we not judge a man according to what was acceptable during his time and not ours?
Herge was a very open-minded man for his time, but maybe not so much according to today's standards. But this probably applies to every man ever lived including our own parents
IMO we should judge people based on their efforts to improve, and based on their openness to learning that their views are imperfect.
I can’t speak to Herge or his era; if he was in the 98th percentile of tolerance and growth, I’d think super highly of him. If he was 60th percentile, less so, but as you say, we are all products of our time.
What I really dislike is the recurring talking point that we can’t judge people for merely being typical of their time.
There have been lots of historical times where the typical views were horrific, and where minorities who argued against those views were persecuted. I don’t truck with the “we can’t blame the persecutors, it’s what everyone was doing” line of thought.
> dislike [...] that we can’t judge people for merely being typical of their time.
That's all very noble but you have to apply it to yourself too. If you just go along with the popular morals of your time, you're no better than them. To a future society, our time may well look immoral.
Morals aren't universal. They depend on the environment people live in. As an example of something widely accepted today - we make children spend most of their childhood at school. Many of them don't much like doing that and it sounds like a fairly abusive practice if it didn't have any purpose. But kids have to go to school so they'll be successful as adults. It's a bad thing we do to people due to the circumstances of our society. Maybe in some kind of future utopia or a non-industrialised world there would be no need for school and the compulsory schooling of today would look like child abuse.
Are you sure you've progressive enough to even identify the bad beliefs of today's progressives, let alone stand up against them?
> we should judge people based on their efforts to improve, and
The world did not change very quickly in regards to social norms or acceptance even in 1950, and colonialism was still very much in vouge back then. The US didn't give up the Philippines and UK didn't give up India until WW2 was wrapping up. Most economic studies I've seen draw a thick line at 1950 as "post war economy" etc etc. Values of "efforts to improve" may not have existed at all in the mainstream media back then. Tintin was/is the French equivalent of the Marvel Cinematic Universe today.
It is indeed, and not just Tintin in Congo, but as you say its racists elements come from the historical background the author was working on and not because Hergé was trying to promote racist views (except for Tintin in Congo BTW, because it was ordered by a very conservative editor as a propaganda work, like Hergé's first book Tintin chez les Soviets).
The vast majority of people in Axis-occupied Europe, especially in the West (France, Belgium, Netherlands) collaborated with the occupiers. I think this speaks more to the spinelessness of the average human person than to this man in particular.
"Collaborated" is overdrawn. While a very significant portion actively collaborated, it's more accurate to say that the broader majority simply acquiesced the Occupation.
This is not to diminish moral responsibility (which I think is an essentially moot topic at this juncture). But rather to bring the focus back to how these regimes actually worked.
You didn't need to be an active collaborator. You just had to not actively resist, and keep your mouth shut (or at least keep your grumblings insubstantial and subdued).
