> this is presumably a 16k loc project that was commited in a single commit two days ago. So the author never commited any draft/dev version in the time
It's quite common to work locally and publish a "finished" version (even if you use source control). The reasons can vary, but I highly doubt that Google wrote Tilt Brush in 3 commits - https://github.com/googlevr/tilt-brush
All I'm saying is assuming everyone one-shots code (and insulting them like people do on HN), is unnecessary. I'm not referring to you, but it's quite a common pattern now, counter to HN's commenting guidelines.
> found AI-like comments in the code
Sure, but respectfully, so what? Like I posted in a [separate comment](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47057690), code generators are like power tools. You don't call a carpenter sloppy because they use power tools to drill or cut things. A sloppy carpenter will be sloppy regardless, and a good carpenter will obsess over every detail even if they use power tools. A good carpenter doesn't need to prove their worth by screwing in every screw by hand, even if they can. :)
In some cases, code generators are like sticks of dynamite - they help blow open large blocks of the mountain in one shot, which can then be worked on and refined over time.
The basic assumption that annoys me is to assume that anyone who uses AI to generate code is incompetent and that their work is of poor quality. Because that assumes that people just one-shot the entire codebase and release it. An experienced developer will mercilessly edit code (whether written by an AI or by a human intern), and edit it until it fits the overall quality and sensibility. And large projects have tones of modules in them, it's sub-optimal to one-shot them all at once.
For e.g. with tests, I've written enough tests in my life that I don't need to type every character from scratch each time. I list the test scenarios, hit generate, and then mercilessly edit the output. The final output is exactly what I would've written anyway, but I'm done with it faster. Power tool. The final output is still my responsibility, and I obsessively review every character that's shipped in the finished product - that is my responsibility.
Sure plenty of people one-shot stuff, just like plenty of Unity games are asset flips, and plenty of YouTube videos are just low-effort slop.
> something that the original author did not even bother to write
Again, this is an assumption. If I give someone bullet points (the actual meat of the content), and someone else puts them into sentences. Did the sentences not reflect my actual content? And is the assumption that the author didn't read what was finally written, and edit it until it reflected the exact intent?
In this case, the author says they used AI to generate the ASCII art in question. How does that automatically mean that the author AI-generated the entire readme, let alone the entire project? I agree, the knee-jerk reactions are way out of proportion.
Where do you draw the line? Will you not use grammar tools now? Will you not use translation tools (to translate to another language) in order to communicate with a foreign person? Will that person argue back that "you" didn't write the text, so they won't bother to read it?
Should we stop using Doxygen for generating documentation from code (because we didn't bother with building a nice website ourselves)?
Put simply, I don't understand the sudden obsession with hammering every nail and pressing every comma by hand, whereas we're clearly okay with other tools that do that.
Should we start writing assembly code by hand now? :)
I mostly I agree with what you said. Comparison with a google project is bad though. That's a corporate business with a lot of people that might touch that codebase. Why are you comparing that to someone's personal project?
Also I can see you and I both agree that it's disingenuous to call all LLM generated content slop. I think slop has just become a provocative buzzword at this point.
Regarding drawing the line, at the end, it comes down to the person using the tools. What others think as these tools become more and more pervasive will become irrelevant. If you as a person outsourced your thinking than it's you who will suffer.
In all my comments, I personally never used the word slop for this project but maintained that LLMs were used significantly. I still think that. Your other comparison of LLMs with things like doxygen or translation tools is puzzling to me. Also points about hammering every nail and every comma are just strawman. 5-6 years ago from today people used these things and nobody had any issues. There's a reason why people dislike LLM use though. If you cannot understand why it frustrates people, then I don't know what to say.
Also people do write assembly by hand when it is required.
> If you as a person outsourced your thinking than it's you who will suffer.
Using a code generator != outsourcing your thinking. I know that's the popular opinion, and yes, you can use it that way. But if you do that, I agree you'll suffer. It'll make sub-optimal design decisions, and produce bloated code.
But you can use code generators and still be the one doing the thinking and making the decisions in the end. And maintain dictatorial control over the final code. It just depends on how you use it.
In many ways, it's like being a tech lead. If you outsource your thinking, you won't last very long.
It's a tool, you're the one wielding it, and it takes time, skill and experience to use it effectively.
I don't really have much more to say. I just spoke up because someone who built something cool was getting beat up unnecessarily, and I've seen this happen on HN way too many times recently. I wasn't pointing fingers at you at any point, I'm glad to have had this discussion :)
It's quite common to work locally and publish a "finished" version (even if you use source control). The reasons can vary, but I highly doubt that Google wrote Tilt Brush in 3 commits - https://github.com/googlevr/tilt-brush
All I'm saying is assuming everyone one-shots code (and insulting them like people do on HN), is unnecessary. I'm not referring to you, but it's quite a common pattern now, counter to HN's commenting guidelines.
> found AI-like comments in the code
Sure, but respectfully, so what? Like I posted in a [separate comment](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47057690), code generators are like power tools. You don't call a carpenter sloppy because they use power tools to drill or cut things. A sloppy carpenter will be sloppy regardless, and a good carpenter will obsess over every detail even if they use power tools. A good carpenter doesn't need to prove their worth by screwing in every screw by hand, even if they can. :)
In some cases, code generators are like sticks of dynamite - they help blow open large blocks of the mountain in one shot, which can then be worked on and refined over time.
The basic assumption that annoys me is to assume that anyone who uses AI to generate code is incompetent and that their work is of poor quality. Because that assumes that people just one-shot the entire codebase and release it. An experienced developer will mercilessly edit code (whether written by an AI or by a human intern), and edit it until it fits the overall quality and sensibility. And large projects have tones of modules in them, it's sub-optimal to one-shot them all at once.
For e.g. with tests, I've written enough tests in my life that I don't need to type every character from scratch each time. I list the test scenarios, hit generate, and then mercilessly edit the output. The final output is exactly what I would've written anyway, but I'm done with it faster. Power tool. The final output is still my responsibility, and I obsessively review every character that's shipped in the finished product - that is my responsibility.
Sure plenty of people one-shot stuff, just like plenty of Unity games are asset flips, and plenty of YouTube videos are just low-effort slop.
But assuming everything that used AI is crap is just really tiring. Like [another commenter said](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47054951), it's about skilled hands.
> something that the original author did not even bother to write
Again, this is an assumption. If I give someone bullet points (the actual meat of the content), and someone else puts them into sentences. Did the sentences not reflect my actual content? And is the assumption that the author didn't read what was finally written, and edit it until it reflected the exact intent?
In this case, the author says they used AI to generate the ASCII art in question. How does that automatically mean that the author AI-generated the entire readme, let alone the entire project? I agree, the knee-jerk reactions are way out of proportion.
Where do you draw the line? Will you not use grammar tools now? Will you not use translation tools (to translate to another language) in order to communicate with a foreign person? Will that person argue back that "you" didn't write the text, so they won't bother to read it?
Should we stop using Doxygen for generating documentation from code (because we didn't bother with building a nice website ourselves)?
Put simply, I don't understand the sudden obsession with hammering every nail and pressing every comma by hand, whereas we're clearly okay with other tools that do that.
Should we start writing assembly code by hand now? :)